A truly hilarious and life-affirming conversation between Eternity co-stars John Early & Da'Vine Joy Randolph.
Topics covered include: Getting comfortable in the chaos, moments of brevity, John writing his directorial debut on set of Eternity, double-fisting at TIFF, attending Interlochen at the exact same time, training in opera, Da’Vine’s stint as a camp counselor for child prodigies, ill-informed southern accents for The Laramie Project, witnessing the greatness of Audra McDonald in Gypsy, a shared love of Company, John’s huge plans for Da’Vine’s career, vocal tics, Da’Vine losing her voice on Broadway after she got nominated for a Tony, choosing to be the clown, and the great problem with contemporary musicals.
John Early: This is John Early and...
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Da'Vine Joy Randolph.
John Early: And we're in my house. Da'Vine.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Hello, my friend.
John Early: Now, Da'Vine Joy or Da'Vine?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So my government is Da'Vine Joy.
John Early: Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But I feel like that's a lot, like every day, just be like Da'Vine Joy.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, I just, just call me Da'Vine
John Early: It's only three syllables.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But it just feels like a lot.
John Early: Yeah, yeah. Do your friends call you Da'Vine Joy or Da'Vine?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No, because that's what I mean, I feel like that's extra.
John Early: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, hello Da'Vine.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Hello.
John Early: This is my house.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Oh my God. Is it?
John Early: Yeah, we're really excited, we just got...
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Evergreens.
John Early: We just got these in, me and Mark. I made him up.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Top tier.
John Early: Yeah. I want to congratulate you on the colors you're wearing.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Thank you.
John Early: They're both true to you, but also true to the movie, Eternity. A24’s Eternity. How have you been?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I've actually been good.
John Early: Good.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I've been really good.
John Early: Nice.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It's been you know.
John Early: Do you know why?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I think it's because I've had a little bit of time off, we get so wrapped up in it... I was just talking about this the other day, of like, I feel like we get comfortable in the chaos and the baddie schedule in a weird way that makes us think like, “Oh, I'm successful, I'm doing it.”
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And so, when I do have the off chance of having moments of brevity... It's like, you know when you go to the country, at least for me, I grew up in the city, so if you go to the country and you're like, “What is that loud sound?” And somebody's like, “It's silence.” Do you know what I mean?
John Early: Yes. It's shocking.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, when I have those moments of brevity, it takes me a couple of days, it feels very uncomfortable, and I'm like, I'm not doing enough, and da da da, I'm failing, whatever. And then, I... It takes me a while. I would probably need to go on a vacation for two, three weeks because week one is shot.
John Early: Before... Yeah, you're like...
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, I could be doing something. Whose towels can I fold? You know what I mean?
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, it's been nice to settle in. I think we need those breaks, don't you think?
John Early: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because I actually think that's what then refuels us, but also creative-wise... Do you find that you are more creative when you get to have a breath, or do you find yourself more creative in the midst? Because I heard a rumor, which I think is true-
John Early: It better not be about my sexuality.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I told you we weren't going to talk about that today.
John Early: Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But in regards to, you were writing your script while we were filming, in your trailer.
John Early: Literally.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: For a movie that is now in TIFF Film Festival.
John Early: Yeah. Yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, you're double fisting at the TIFF Festival.
John Early: Well, I love fisting, and you know that.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know, that's why I gave that reference to lead you right there.
John Early: For me, it's both. For this movie that I was writing in particular, I needed a degree of blindness that you can only get through speed. It's a very wild premise, and so there was kind of something built in from the beginning where I was like, “I just want to go fast and see what happens if I go fast.” And I was like, I have a feeling that if I slow down, I'll be like, “What are you doing?” So, the whole purpose of that movie, Maddie's Secret, coming soon to a theater near you, there's no distribution yet.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You better watch it. You will get distributed.
John Early: Thank you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Absolutely.
John Early: But I was like, I'm going to just drive fast and see what happens, and yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Do you do that, was that your first time applying that process or technique?
John Early: Kind of. But normally I am more go to the woods and let it emerge.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Even for your comedy?
John Early: I don't know how my comedy comes together, I have to be honest with you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Really?
John Early: It's like comedy comes together through years of going to do sets, and kind of having a gun to your head and being like, “I need something new.” I think, but more narrative stuff, like movies, I feel like has to come from some time in the woods where you can let it kind of bubble up. So, it's both. What about you?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I kind of like the idea of... I hate having the script in my hand. And so... It’s different project to project, but in general I hate, to me that's like duh, that's necessary, just do it.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Just get off book so that now you can get... It makes me feel blocked.
John Early: Yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Right? So, that needs to happen for me first so that then I can-
John Early: Memorize.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. So, I can then feel free. I like to, I always describe it as you can put boundaries or guardrails... It's like bowling. You can put those little rails up, but I want the rails to be five lanes long. Does that make sense? I don't want it narrow, I want a big playground, and there's a safety of me knowing somewhere there's rails to keep me in here, but it's not tight, but I need to bang against the walls.
John Early: And the rails for you are the memorization?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No, I like to do the work ahead of time in a sense of like, okay, get off book, done that, then I like to really get to... If I didn't do this, I think I would've been in psychology or something. I'm really, really into human behavior, and I'm just fascinated by why people do the things they do, and the rationale that they make up in their head. And it's legit to them. To someone else it's like, you are off your rocker, but I'm fascinated how people's brains tick. And so, that's the part that I indulge and have fun with, once that's then done, I'm like, okay, they're in me, when we now come to set to film, you could tell me that my character now is going to space and I'm like, “Bet.” Right? Because they're locked in the essence and the persona and the “them” is in me, so it makes me then feel free of like, I know who she is.
John Early: Yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Right?
John Early: Well, and the alternative, which is so dangerous, and I feel like sometimes I fall into this trap, is if you don't do all that work beforehand, and then you come to set and you've manically done the work five minutes before, then your performance becomes a book report, you'd become a good student. You're like, I did the work, you're trying to show how you did the work.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Early: Versus what you're doing, which is just letting go.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That still happens to me though sometimes, because we'll get to set and they might completely change things, or they've now come up with this amazing idea that your character is something completely different, or it might be something that needs to be very technical at this point. They might be like “Chill out, we actually just need you to stand here and say this thing.” Right?
John Early: Yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And so yeah, I can understand that, but-
John Early: But to me that's the danger of not going to the woods, and not chilling.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That's your woods. Yeah.
John Early: Yeah. If you work in too manic or caffeinated of a way, then when it really counts, when the camera's rolling, sometimes you get a little... I don't know. I'm like-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, a little manic. Yeah.
John Early: ... I'm prepared, I'm prepared, I did it. But you, I have to say, working with you on Eternity, coming soon to a theater near you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You better go see it, you better.
John Early: They have not asked us to do this, but it was like-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It's a given, we're doing it.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You better. It affects my money.
John Early: Okay. Yes. Come see the fucking movie. I don't like cursing, I want to try to curse less. You know what I mean?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But it's who you are.
John Early: Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I think you'd be more boring.
John Early: If I didn't curse?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, it's who you are, and you do it well. To curse well, so trippingly off the tongue.
John Early: Trippingly off the tongue.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Mm-hmm. It's a gift.
John Early: Oh. We've opened a door.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know.
John Early: Okay. We've opened a huge door, which is acting school.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know.
John Early: Okay, so I want to know... I want to know about you. We've talked about this a little bit on set.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Because people should know, there are three NYU students in this movie, and one Yalie, and I don't know where Callum went.
John Early: Yeah-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I'm going to say RADA, let's just keep it league.
John Early: Yeah, yeah, he went to RADA.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We’re Ivy Leagueys.
John Early: Yeah. Wait, did we talk about Interlochen?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You went to Interlochen?
John Early: I went to Interlochen.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We did not talk about that.
John Early: I did a little-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I'm about to start crying.
John Early: I went to Interlochen.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Doesn't the name just make you... Literally my eyes are starting to water up.
John Early: So, did you do the academy or the camp?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Did the camp-
John Early: Me too.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ... they then said, that was my junior summer, they then said, come to the school, and my mom said, "Yeah, right."
John Early: Me too.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: "Bring your butt home right now."
John Early: Me too.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I was like, “Mom, please.”
John Early: This is the exact same journey.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: They recruited me.
John Early: My junior year, and I got into the academy, and I was like, “Well, here we go.”
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It started, I'm a star.
John Early: Center stage, here we fucking go.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know. It's okay.
John Early: And then my mom was devastated. And I understand.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, it was our last year.
John Early: Yeah, she was going to lose me a year early, and I get that now, and I'm glad I stayed in Nashville.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know.
John Early: But-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I felt the same way.
John Early: ...but it was such a dream, that place.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Truly. I never experienced anything-
John Early: Anything like it. Still.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I loved it so much, maybe... Okay, so while in college, I went back to be a camp counselor, get it… for the four-year olds.
John Early: That's so sweet.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Little Korean prodigies, literally in the bed with me because they were like, their parents shipped them off.
John Early: That's crazy.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: To come in the middle of the woods.
John Early: You were a counselor in a cabin?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes.
John Early: That's wild.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: For the little, little babies.
John Early: That's so sweet. So, you loved it that much, you had to be back.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah.
John Early: Yeah. It was-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, I need to hear the song... See, it gets you. Those that know, know.
John Early: It literally, I literally could cry, you singing that. It's crazy.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I've never... It's actually been, people-
John Early: Is this relatable? I just want to check in real quick.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No, people who have gone there say that there's nothing in comparison. I do think it's relatable because I think, I don't know about you, but for me, I knew I had a gift in this genre of art, like arts, and whether it's singing... I didn't know acting yet, it was just strictly singing music.
John Early: It was opera?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, I was in the classical voice department.
John Early: Wow, that is so cool.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Yeah.
John Early: Because I always felt as a theater person, you do feel a little bit the kind of-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You guys were the wild ones.
John Early: The clowns.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah.
John Early: Yeah. You feel like the kind of vagabonds, and everyone else there is like-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes, very serious.
John Early: They're like 10, and they're-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Very focused.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, I can get that. But it started my identity as an artist.
John Early: Yeah, me too.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And the respect and the dedication, and that place for sure taught me discipline.
John Early: Me too.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, I'm forever grateful to that place because I've never experienced anything like it.
John Early: That was the first time I was like, oh, people can take it seriously-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That's right.
John Early: ...you're allowed to take it seriously and not feel like a nerd.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Weird about it, yeah.
John Early: Yeah. It was so thrilling, we did The Laramie Project.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Wait a minute.
John Early: What?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Did we go at the same time? We'll talk about this later.
John Early: Do you remember a production of The Laramie Project?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah.
John Early: Yeah. Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Wait, unless they do this every five years.
John Early: I don't think they do. It's a smart one, it's a big ensemble, heavy subject matter.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: What?
John Early: But one of my favorite memories from The Laramie Project, it's set in Wyoming, famously, Laramie, Wyoming, rural Wyoming, but we were like, we literally all could not stop doing southern accents.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Why?
John Early: Because it's people who live on farms, we were like... And the director was like, “Okay, calm down.” She was like, "They're not in the south."
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Oh my God.
John Early: And we could not curb the accent.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Whoa.
John Early: It was so funny. But yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Wait, I have to know now. What was the musical?
John Early: The musical was Babes in Arms, the Rodgers and Hart musical.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We were there at the same time.
John Early: No! This is huge.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Toby Brahms?
John Early: From the musical theater apartment? Yes-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I'm going to cry.
John Early: [Singing]
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I'm going to cry. Stop.
John Early: This is crazy.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I'm going to cry. See, this is the connection!
John Early: Yes! This is crazy.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We were in each other's energy.
John Early: And we probably were at the cafeteria together.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: For sure. For sure. For sure.
John Early: Yeah, that's beautiful. I did a musical with my friends there, we made a musical called Interlochen Dreams.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I have to see it.
John Early: And we performed it in the library, and I played a kid named Ben Dover, who was closeted.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Honey, let me tell you, there was a lot of that. It was a very transformative...
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That was a big summer for a lot of people.
John Early: I'm not going to get into details, but let's just say I was rocked.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes. You guys, the boys side definitely had way more fun than we did. It brought in a new era for many of you gents.
John Early: It really did.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I was very happy for all of you.
John Early: Thank you. Thank you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You deserved it. It's time.
John Early: But then opera... This is my curiosity. Because you were doing classical music at Interlochen and beyond, was part of you, did it feel like there were limits on an acting level to opera? What pulled you into musical theater?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes. So, I got into Interlochen off of a dare.
John Early: Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because there was this snobby girl at my school, a newbie that came in, and was like, "I went to Interlochen," and I said, "Yo, I don't know what this is, but I don't like her tone, I'm applying." Right? Just because I'm competitive. Got there, and I was like, “Whoa, this is really, really cool.” You can make a living, this is... Well, I don't know about living, but you know what I mean? This is a thing, you can take it serious, this is whatever. At Interlochen it was this sense of play, maybe because the theater department was around and stuff, and you're like intermingling with all these people. It wasn't necessarily told to us like, “You can act too, while doing this”, but it was like move around and... You know what I mean? Be in your body kind of a thing. And then, when I went to college, it was like, no, just stand there-
John Early: Pure technical.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Stand there, look pretty, that is it. Sing out.
John Early: You're like a concert singer, you're not doing-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, but you're doing an opera, and we're doing Aida, and you're being buried alive with your white boyfriend.
John Early: And they're like, don't act. Don't you dare.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, and it wasn't that I wanted to act, but that just felt-
John Early: Strange.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...it felt very stiff and cold, and I was like, “Uh-huh.”
John Early: Obviously that's not true of all opera, there's probably some opera world-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Now... Well, you're right. So, back in the day, if you look at old videos, epic.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Extreme acting, on a Grecian level, and then it stopped.
John Early: That's so interesting.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And growing up, at least with my education, they were not about it. And now, opera is getting a little avant-garde-ish.
John Early: Yes. Right.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And real weird, going the other side of the pendulum.
John Early: The Anna Nicole opera. Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. And you're like, “Whoa, okay.”
John Early: Now, is there a part of you that... Can you imagine the career shift? Can I just quickly be your manager?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know.
John Early: You've won an Oscar, imagine you suddenly are like, “I'll see you at The Met, bitch”, and you do an opera.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Ooh, can I tell you? I just recently came back from going to Florence, and in Florence, but Italy in general, but Florence, their street performers are casual opera singers that can blow.
John Early: That's amazing. Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I cried. And I was like... This is funny because this literally just happened days ago.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I was like, okay-
John Early: You missed it a little bit.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...you need to tap back into it, you need to tap back into it. So-
John Early: I'm so excited.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...I don't know how. I've thought about doing it, of a way of merging the two, portraying an opera singer in a biopic or something.
John Early: Oh God. Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know, I know. But I'm nervous, but excited, but very curious of how that would work, because as a musician, that is a whole other side of my brain, and I think because of Interlochen, but in a good way, I'm very regimented. Da da da da da da da. So, I'm nervous because I came to acting by this happy accident. I'm very free, because I was like, “Well, I don't know”... You know what I mean? Let's just try it. I'm sure you had people, especially at Yale, there were people who were very like, “This is acting, and Stanislavski says, and Uta Hagen told me”, and I'm like, “Who's Uts? Stan said what?” I didn't know anything.
John Early: I wish I had that.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, I was loose, but-
John Early: Oh, I didn't know anything, but I was such a good student. I was so rigid.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But those programs make... You know what I mean? Of course.
John Early: They inspire that. Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. And so I'm nervous because I'm that with music.
John Early: Interesting.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But I think of people of Cynthia Erivo, or Audra McDonald, where they blend the two, I am so-
John Early: Did you see Gypsy?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I could not get a chance to see it, and I am-
John Early: That's okay. That's okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: …gutted.
John Early: We can also cut this.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I'm really upset.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But I did see that clip. I'm literally getting chills right now.
John Early: Yeah, she tore. Talk about acting and music. What I thought was so cool about her performance was I was like, it actually didn't feel like the thing that Gypsy can be... Well, first of all, you should just do Gypsy in 20 years.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You know what's funny-
John Early: 40 years.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...there were talks about it, because they didn't really want it to close, and there were talks about it, but it literally was like, “Could you do it in two weeks?” And I was like, “Are you out of your mind?”
John Early: No.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No.
John Early: Oh my God, this is crazy. Okay, so what I thought was so cool, and this will bring us back to other things, is it really was, as opposed to it just being a performance about a performance, which that role can so easily be, where it's like, here we go, the grand dame of musical theater, let's all applaud for the diva, which that of course is what's going on no matter what-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Sure, sure, sure.
John Early: ...and that's the heaven of seeing it live.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Absolutely.
John Early: As an audience member, your role is so clear. You just get to go [Cheering Noise], and I lept my feet, I was like-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Sure, sure, sure.
John Early: But she acted, it didn't feel like that was the subtext of the performance, it was just like, I was like, oh, she has literally-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Raw.
John Early: ...she studied someone in her life, who's manic depressive, whatever the right clinical term is, she has watched someone or she knows, I was like, she knows someone like this. Which was so cool.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Mm-hmm. And I also wondered, do you think that maybe her working on Billie Holiday before that set her up? I thought of that.
John Early: Probably. Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Right? I loved how she wasn't afraid to sound ugly.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because the emotion is in the cracks and the vocal breaks.
John Early: Yeah. And for those who don't know, she has a classical soprano voice typically, but no, she was going all-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Beautiful, pretty voice.
John Early: …in every little parts of her range.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And she just let it all-
John Early: It was so cool.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...hang out, and raw.
John Early: But wait, so musical... Wait, here's my question to you. Do you-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I used to sneak in Interlochen... Quick thing. I used to sneak in their rehearsals.
John Early: The musical theater?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. So, maybe there was something calling me because it was like, I loved classical, but I would literally sneak in-
John Early: I worshiped them, because I was like, I can't believe... Because musical theater, pure acting is obviously just a little more mercurial, it's kind of harder to say, “Well, that person's got it and that person doesn't.” Musical theater, the fact that there is kind of a metric of singing and dancing. Although, I would love for us to have more Elaine Stritchs in the world, where it's not about athletic singing.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I hope when I get old, I go and transition into that category.
John Early: Yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That would be really fun for me.
John Early: I literally have huge plans for your career.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We will talk afterwards.
John Early: Okay, we'll talk.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes.
John Early: Okay. So, wait, now that you've done so much film acting, do you... It's okay if you don't want to answer this.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: 100%.
John Early: Do you keep up your voice?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I don't.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And it is so... Well, listen, I think if you're a musical person, there's always a tuning, I'm always... Even out of nerves. This is funny, if I have a tense conversation, let's say I talk with my agent or whoever, and I'm like... I didn't know I'd do this, it's a tick. When I hang up on the phone after a tense conversation, I'm like… [Operatic Noises] It's a thing of release it.
John Early: That's unbelievable.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It's a tick. Or I'll hum something, just-
John Early: Oh my God.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...of like, release it.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, there's always musicality in me, but I don't. But that's why I've been kind of prepping myself and warming myself up to this idea of possibly doing this biopic.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I literally... It's funny, she knows me well, my voice teacher. I'll text her and I'll be like, "What do you feel about us possibly having a voice lesson in two years?" And she's like, "Let's make it six months." So, it's like there's a nervousness.
John Early: Yeah. People I know who really can actually sing have this.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because it's very emotional.
John Early: Yes. And there's something very scary, obviously, about the deterioration of the voice.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because it still, the voice is a muscle.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And so... Okay. So, when I was on Broadway, it was very intense. Because it was the first thing I did, two months out of graduating. Right? I liked musical theater, but I wasn't a musical theater person, I didn't know lyrics to... I wasn't that kind of person. We did it in the West End first first, and then I came to do it on Broadway, but I had lost my voice.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And so, there's a fearfulness that I have because I can't fully control... We can't really control our voice. Right? And so, that's why I feel like it feels like an okay next step of a film, because if it leaves me, then I'm like, okay, let's just take a break until it comes back. So, I think that's where the fear is. In a weird way with acting, I feel like I can, all right, I could do it, or... You know what I mean? Even have a bad day. Like, there's so many takes that we do that I'm like, they got something-
John Early: Something.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...they'll cut away, come back, they'll get enough. It's so vulnerable standing there, even as a musician with instruments, that instrument is in front of you not to get deep, but your whole frontal is exposed-
John Early: You are the instrument.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...your heart is open, exposed, this offering. And when it's amazing, it's amazing. And with me losing my voice on Broadway for the first time, I had developed severe stage fright.
John Early: That's so scary, so did someone have to go on for you?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Well, yeah, on times they would have to go on, and stuff like that, but then when I got nominated, in my mind I thought, “Okay, great, we got the nomination”... First of all, I was not expecting that at all. But great, I get to take a break, and they were like, “Oh no, no baby, you actually have to perform every single night”, because I didn't know-
John Early: Because the Tony voters come.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: They can come at any time.
John Early: Oh.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And they cannot come when you-
John Early: Who are the God damn Tony voters?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I have no idea. Their identity is-
John Early: Are they freaks, or are they like-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I have no idea, and I don't want to know.
John Early: Okay.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I don't want to know who they are, especially if they... No.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No. But yeah, so that was very... So, even people are like, "Are you going to come back to Broadway?" I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, sure, for the right thing," and we're going to have to write the music to be in my voice, 100%, so that even when... You know what I mean? And you're singing in the winter, and-
John Early: Oh my gosh.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...you have no life, you're not talking, you're texting. It's just the amount of dedication that it takes for Broadway in a musical, you better really love it. And then have an escape plan when you're done.
John Early: Mercury poisoning from sushi.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because it is intense. But I love it, and there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it.
John Early: That's so cool. Well, okay, so you told me the story when we were on set of Eternity, and you told me about the Ghost thing, where the girl had a knee injury and then they flew you to London?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That's how I got to... Yeah. So, I had auditioned for it two months out of school, but I was supposed to just do the Broadway-
John Early: The eventual.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes. That was months, almost a year later. So, it was weird too because it's like, you got a job, but you can't talk about it, and it's like a whole year from now. And then, they said the lady, she had had a knee injury that she hadn't dealt with, and I guess the doctors were like, “You need to, babes.” And so, what's interesting is, I don't know if it's this way now, because Broadway's changed so much, but in the UK, on the West End, they have four understudies for the lead characters. Four.
John Early: Whoa.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, they said no to all of those, who had been with them, workshopping it, and flew me in, I had never had a rehearsal or nothing.
John Early: No.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That was a cold room, honey.
John Early: No.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Can you imagine waltzing in there?
John Early: So what?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Like, “Hi guys.” Four.
John Early: Oh, and they were all in the room?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No, no, no.
John Early: Because they were all in the ensemble probably too, they were like, “Hi.” Oh my God.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And you know how the Brits get down when they're upset?
John Early: Yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Can't quite read it, do you hate me? Do you love me? I don't know.
John Early: Wait, so what was the first performance, were you flying by the seat of your pants?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I landed on a Sunday, they immediately took me to go see the show, jet lag, fell asleep through the whole performance. That next day Monday, I had a rehearsal with the assistant director, I did not know... They said, "Oh, we're going to have rehearsals, I'm going to walk you through the show for this week." And I was like, "Okay, cool." Had rehearsal Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, they then were like, "Great, we feel like you're at a great place, you're going to go on tonight," I didn't know that they had... This was when it was, what was that thing called? Do do do do... Skype, that's what it was. The director was secretly skyping my rehearsal.
John Early: Even your Skype was gorgeous.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: No, but I don't remember, I saw the S-
John Early: That soft palette was-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: He was like, it was like they had a camera set up, I didn't know, he was watching the rehearsals, the director, after two rehearsals, they were like, "Great, you're going to go on tonight, tonight's going to be your dress rehearsal, Thursday, you will..." I don't know. Basically, I had two rehearsals, dress rehearsals, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday... I was all on, I was performing. And I was like, “Why would you do this to these people?” They about their money.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah.
John Early: But did you feel... Was a part of you like-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Honestly what saved me-
John Early: Or was it kind of a give it to God, here we go?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Absolutely, what else are you going to do?
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It was honestly kind of amazing that she couldn't see dead people. Well, she could see... You know what I mean? To sell it, I couldn't look at him, right? So, if you are Sam, I can't look at you.
John Early: Patrick Swayze?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So, imagine, if I had to actually lock in with you on words that I don't really know, it's hard. When you have to lock eyes with someone. But to be like, Sam, I could literally be searching, does that make sense?
John Early: Yes, totally.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I made the disability work for me for, for-
John Early: That's amazing.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...a cool two weeks.
John Early: That's unbelievable.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It was very intense.
John Early: In some ways. I'm like, was it the best... Your first show was the best performance of your life?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Well, yeah, because it's just, like you said, that speed of fun, you just... And I remember my teacher at Yale, he was like, you'll never experience anything like this, after this you're good.
John Early: Yeah, so cool.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You got it out the way... That, and school, and the craziness that school did. But he was like, “You're good.” And he's right, I've never experienced... Things get wild, but nah, it kind of broke me in. Do you know what I mean?
John Early: Yeah, totally.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I was like, okay. So, now whether we're filming or doing TV shows, I'm like, okay, so you have more pages.
John Early: Yeah. Right.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We'll figure it out, I'm going to stumble, I'm going to mess it up, but at least I know.
John Early: Yeah, but it's not life or death.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: This is what we're doing today, so I can lock in.
John Early: Okay. I want to talk about acting songs.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes.
John Early: This to me is the problem with so much contemporary musical theater, is like, I'm going to demonstrate two different styles of acting songs.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Please.
John Early: Okay. Okay, I went to the store, that's the lyric.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yep.
John Early: Okay. So, the contemporary way is, so you feel that they were taught this in school, it's so professionalized, or it's like “I went to the store.”
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Yeah. Clocking it, yeah.
John Early: Versus older, kind of Elaine Stritch, Bette Midler, my heroes-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah, deliver it.
John Early: Where it's just there. It's like, there's no difference between them singing a jazz standard that moves them-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Do you feel like contemporary musicals are indie, is that what it is? That it's like... Right?
John Early: Kind of twee, the acting style?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Yeah.
John Early: Sometimes. I feel like there's a weird homogenization of the way people act songs, and I'm just like, I don't know if you need to be so focused on... I feel like I can see a teacher going, tell the story, and choose the image, and look up and find the memory, and then sing to the memory.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah.
John Early: And I'm just like, I wonder if you have an approach or if you just feel it? Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: So, I had to take a musical theater class in school, and that was when I was like, oh... That was when the world started to emerge for me, that I was like, okay. I did, I did, I was judgy in the class. Because I used to call it the cheerleading acting, like yeah. It's like the setting up, I'm about to do the mount, and I'm about to give you this big note and you better love it. And I used to be like, what is this? So, I just thought that I was the oddball in class because I just was like, I don't want to look like that. And I just refused. And luckily, none of my teachers were like, no, no, you need to do that, but I did think, where’d they learn that from? What is that?
John Early: I know, why does it have to sound-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: They saw that somewhere.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It's a brand, it's a thing.
John Early: I know.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I don't know who created that though.
John Early: And if you listen to old Sondheim cast recordings, it's just like everyone's just kind of talking basically instead of singing.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: That's why I think Company is genius.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It is the most natural thing ever.
John Early: It's so cool.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And what's nice about his stuff is, with his stuff, you can't do that. It's not even possible.
John Early: Yeah, yeah, musically, it's impossible.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Even Into the Woods, this is a fairy tale, and they're real natural, like, "I need to go to the festival," and? Do you know what I mean? That's it.
John Early: Yeah, yeah. Now I see your Into the Woods.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I got to go.
John Early: You were just so relaxed on set, it was so cool.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Thank you.
John Early: You're such an easy actor, it's so-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But I felt that from you.
John Early: Thank you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I felt that from you.
John Early: Thank you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Because you don't you feel as... You're a comedian, I'm not. But with the funnies, do you ever, sometimes, even if it's like... Unless it's like you're with all of your friends, sometimes with your comedic energy, do you sometimes feel like I got to warm people up to me? Do you know what I mean?
John Early: Mm-hmm.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I sometimes feel that, where I'm like, how... You know what I'm saying?
John Early: Kind of teach people your thing?
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Or people still get nervous about improv.
John Early: Yes, yes.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Or people who consider... I think a lot of people are very funny, and they don't give themselves credit. But they will freeze up and get nervous. Do you ever feel that way sometimes? What I love is that I felt like being that I always play, as of yet, I've always played supporting characters, I think I've developed a muscle of good, of well, to come into a room and sense people's energy, and be like, okay, I know how to meet that, and together we rise, right?
John Early: Totally.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: But I find with the comedy, people can feel very, especially if they're not considering themselves... If they cast someone in a movie, and it's like, oh, well, that's the straight man, but that's really the straight man, that they can really feel uncomfortable, how do you deal with that? Because I think you're very free.
John Early: Thank you. Thank you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Especially with the comedy, what?
John Early: Thank you. Well, I think I know what you mean, I like having the job of the clown, of disarming and loosening people up.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yes. Yes.
John Early: I do feel that people... We have been, for the past 20 years, living under big improvisation, there's been so much-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Did you do any of that?
John Early: I improvise with my friend Kate Berlant. My relationship to improv is utterly contained within that collaboration-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And is that because you felt like you-
John Early: I tried the classes, and I was like, I can't do this.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Okay.
John Early: They'd be like, “Go”, and I'd be like, “Pizza”... I literally could not do it. But I can do it with Kate.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You have a person that you feel comfortable, and it just flows with.
John Early: Yeah. But I do think that people clam up because we value it too much or something as a culture, people are so obsessed-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It's like the antithesis of.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You're supposed to be free. That's what I think the point of improv is.
John Early: Yeah, just be free.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Just babble things out until, I think, the idea is you eventually are going to get to a sweet spot, and that is the spark that will then allow it to completely unleash.
John Early: Yeah.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Do you find that directors... I remember when they were like, he's hired, and I was like, oh baby, yes. This is all about to open up, really, truly-
John Early: Aw, thanks.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: ...and breathe, and come onto a whole other level. And do you find that directors tend to lean into you for stuff like that? Of like, oh, great, I have him, or is it the opposite where they're like, don't do... What is your experience with that?
John Early: No, I feel a lot, this thing.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: You're writing the script.
John Early: Yes. And when I was... I was about to say when I was 15. I felt 15. When I was 25, doing my first big jobs, and they wanted me to improvise, I was like, okay, okay, whatever. But now I feel a little bit like, well, I don't want to write it, you guys write it.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah. Yeah. Or bring me in early and give me a credit and a check.
John Early: Yeah, exactly.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I will happily write it.
John Early: And it's so much more fun to be given lines, and then-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It feels good.
John Early: ...I don't know. It's a lot of pressure. Anyways.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Yeah.
John Early: Well, I'm getting word from our producers that we have to wrap up.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Is it time to do a soft wrap?
John Early: I'm so happy to see you again.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know.
John Early: It was so fun working with you.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: I know, we got to do more of it.
John Early: It was so easy.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: We need to do more of it.
John Early: We really do.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And we cannot not, not do this again.
John Early: No. And we-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: Should we do a podcast?
John Early: We should do a podcast.
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I want to hear about my thoughts, or your thoughts on my career.
John Early: About your career. Yes. I have huge, huge plans that I've hatched through-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: And I'm biting at the bit, biting at the bit to hear it.
John Early: Well, with that-
Da'Vine Joy Randolph: See you later.