A conversation on debut filmmaking and bearing your soul between Celine Song and Eva Victor, the powerhouse filmmakers behind two of this summer's best movies, Materialists and Sorry, Baby.
Topics covered include: Martini celebrations, hydration regimens, learning the true meaning of the word ‘release,’ feeling visible but not seen, bringing your whole humanity to the words on a page, sharing an editor with Terrence Malick, the Mother/Sister/Daughter theory, the subtle differences between directing Pedro Pascal, Chris Evans and Dakota Johnson, alleviating grief by thinking about The Next Thing, desperately needing sleep, Celine going straight from the Oscars to the first Materialists scout, Eva’s intricate process directing a movie they also acted in, sparring of ideas, committing to subjectivity, and having bangs.
Celine Song: Hi, I'm Celine Song.
Eva Victor: And I'm Eva Victor, and this is the A24 podcast. Wait, why did I nail it? Are we doing it right now?
Celine Song: I think we're doing it right now.
Eva Victor: That's so awesome because it was such a seamless transition. You wouldn't even know we were doing a podcast.
Celine Song: I know. Yeah, when they were saying, it's like, "Well, who would you do..." I was like, "Oh, who would I do a podcast with for this movie?" And I was like... And then when you asked and I was like, "Oh my God-"
Eva Victor: Thank you for doing it.
Celine Song: “... we can do it together.” Did you see Vanya on 42nd Street? Have you seen that movie?
Eva Victor: No.
Celine Song: It's like an André Gregory thing.
Eva Victor: Oh, cool.
Celine Song: It's really cool. But that's how they do that play. It looks like all the audiences are just talking to each other, and then one of them is just-
Eva Victor: How swaggy is that?
Celine Song: It's so cool.
Eva Victor: It's just mind-blowing when you're in the audience and you're like, "The play has begun."
Celine Song: The play has begun, just like this podcast.
Eva Victor: The podcast has begun.
Celine Song: It's begun. Yeah.
Eva Victor: Oh my God. How are you feeling?
Celine Song: How are you? How are you? How's premiere?
Eva Victor: I definitely had a martini.
Celine Song: That's great.
Eva Victor: Which for me was like New York, martini, celebration, grown-up.
Celine Song: I mean, I can't drink at those things, you know?
Eva Victor: Yeah, because you're just protecting yourself?
Celine Song: No, not really even. I feel like I just forget to.
Eva Victor: I know. Well, there's no time.
Celine Song: There's no time. And then whenever I'm thinking, I'm like, "I should drink something," it's usually like water.
Eva Victor: Water. Chug that.
Celine Song: Because I'm so thirsty.
Eva Victor: I know. I know. But I am doing this punishing thing where I'm not drinking water to see what my body can take.
Celine Song: Okay. You can't do that.
Eva Victor: I know. I know. I know.
Celine Song: You have to hydrate.
Eva Victor: How much water do you drink?
Celine Song: I try to do as much as I can.
Eva Victor: Are you for real? You drink water all the time?
Celine Song: You have to. Also, I mean, I still don't drink enough.
Eva Victor: Yeah. No one does.
Celine Song: But I'm told to.
Eva Victor: By who?
Celine Song: Mainly my husband.
Eva Victor: Yeah. Well, good for him. That's love.
Celine Song: He's always like, "You just need to hydrate."
Eva Victor: I feel like guys are obsessed with having people drink water.
Celine Song: Yeah. What is that? Have you noticed?
Eva Victor: It's love. And also psychoticness and Dad-shit or something, I don't know.
Celine Song: I think maybe it's something like that, but maybe it's the one thing maybe they figured out is something that makes them feel good.
Eva Victor: Right. They're like, "Water's good. That's the one thing in this world that's constant for me."
Celine Song: Yeah. And you can get it.
Eva Victor: Yeah, it's easy.
Celine Song: And it's basically free, in New York anyway.
Eva Victor: You know what I don't like is watching anyone, but particularly men chug water for a while and watching it go down their throat like...
Celine Song: You don't like it? I think I like men a lot.
Eva Victor: You love men?
Celine Song: I think I do.
Eva Victor: Oh my god, tell me everything.
Celine Song: Because I see that and then I am like, "That's great."
Eva Victor: You're like, "That's hot."
Celine Song: Kind of, yeah.
Eva Victor: Wait, so tell me why? Because it's like they're filling an essential need?
Celine Song: That's so funny. No, I don't know. I think that... I don't know. I find them so charming.
Eva Victor: Oh my God. You find men charming?
Celine Song: Yeah, I do.
Eva Victor: I find some men very charming.
Celine Song: Yeah. I think some men are charming, but I feel like part of that is you just kind of go like, "Okay. It's part of, I think, knowing them too, getting to know them because I'm not one."
Eva Victor: If you see man and love chug water, that could be very beautiful for you.
Celine Song: It could be very beautiful. But also I think that it's because I just find them to be... I mean, I guess charming is the best word for it.
Eva Victor: Well, they're so different.
Celine Song: They are so different.
Eva Victor: They do the weirdest stuff.
Celine Song: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, they were born into a different world in a way. Right?
Eva Victor: Completely.
Celine Song: A world that was built for them.
Eva Victor: It's so awesome.
Celine Song: It is kind of different.
Eva Victor: I admire that.
Celine Song: I don't admire that, but I do think that is very... It brings a different perspective.
Eva Victor: Yeah. No, it's huge.
Celine Song: To walk into a world and then be like, 'Oh, this is built for me and this is for me."
Eva Victor: Right. And they're like, "Have some water. Welcome to my world."
Celine Song: "Have some water." Yeah.
Eva Victor: Wait. Oh, wait. Okay. So how are you feeling?
Celine Song: I feel good.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Yeah. I mean, my movie's out in the world. You're just going to come out so soon.
Eva Victor: Yes. And I've never felt more clear on what the word release means.
Celine Song: Yeah. Oh really?
Eva Victor: I didn't understand.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah. You're having a whole thing.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: And I feel like I was doing this in 2023. I feel like you and I are having a-
Eva Victor: It's a vibe.
Celine Song: ...a similar time aren't we?
Eva Victor: How does your feeling right now compare to your feeling then?
Celine Song: Oh, I feel like you must know exactly how I was feeling at that time in 2023, back when Past Lives was coming out, where you were being introduced to the world in a really beautiful way with you in your film, and you had just gone to Sundance. It was so wonderful.
Eva Victor: Right. And then shout out to you.
Celine Song: Shout out to you. So I feel like you get to come out of Sundance and you have all this amazing... You're meeting your audience, right.
Eva Victor: You're right. It's very, very weird.
Celine Song: It's so magical. Yeah.
Eva Victor: It's very, very magical and weird.
Celine Song: It is pretty weird. I mean, because something that I think about a lot is that you're visible but not seen sometimes, you know?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Because you're very, very visible, but it's only a handful of people who really see you. And even when I talk to... when I do interviews and stuff like that, I think about that a lot, I'm always like, "Oh, this journalist, this writer really sees me." Or sometimes you're like, "Oh, I'm just visible to this person."
Eva Victor: Oh, that's such an important distinction. And when you feel seen, that's such a euphoric feeling.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah.
Eva Victor: Well, and that's why you... That's what you're looking for.
Celine Song: That's why we're making a movie, right?
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: And also, of course, you're so seen in your film, you know?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: As is everyone, ultimately.
Celine Song: I agree. I mean, I think that you can see me really well in my movie.
Eva Victor: Very clearly, yes.
Celine Song: You know what I mean?
Eva Victor: Yes!
Celine Song: Yeah. I feel like I'm really... Because part of it's like we're... especially having as much authority on it as we can.
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: I'm sure it's like if you don't have as much authority on it, then maybe somebody else is in it. But for our movies, we just get to... How lucky are we?
Eva Victor: I mean, that's the thing that allows me to sleep at night. I feel that it is the film I wanted to make and that I am in it in the way I wanted to be in it, like heart-wise.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Totally. Well, I think it's like you got to be in it. And then now it's being... It is, of course, very visible, and you want to be as visible as possible so that as many people who see it, where you can feel seen in it with them.
Eva Victor: Yes. It's like giving yourself as much opportunity to find people who can see it.
Celine Song: Yes, exactly.
Eva Victor: It's weird too, because visibility isn't emotional.
Celine Song: No.
Eva Victor: There's nothing to hold on to.
Celine Song: No. But it looks shiny and great, you know?
Eva Victor: Yeah, yes.
Celine Song: But then I feel like once in a while I'll talk to somebody or something and I'll be like, "Oh, wow, you're really... You actually saw me in the movie."
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: That's so magical
Eva Victor: That, it's a drop of water and you're so thirsty and feeling... And when someone sees how you are in it, that is the thing that allows you to believe that it made sense that you did it and that you do it and... Because it's such a hard job.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah.
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: You mean like being visible?
Eva Victor: Well, just making a movie.
Celine Song: Sure.
Eva Victor: You're like, "It's easy to me."
Celine Song: No, it's not easy to me. But I think part of it is that, I don't know, every day I feel like I was on set for my second movie. Because I feel like part of making the first movie though is that I don't think that I knew how to appreciate it because it was coming at me so fast. I was just kind of like, "Oh, okay. Day two."
Eva Victor: "Fuck, day two is happening now."
Celine Song: Yeah. And then, "Day three. Oh my God." Right.
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Then, "Okay, so we wrapped. What happens now? So much of it is like-
Eva Victor: Not knowing,
Celine Song: ...not knowing and figuring out on the way. But in the second movie, I feel like...
Eva Victor: Yeah. Tell me, how did it feel prepping that? Yeah, tell me how your mind was?
Celine Song: Because you're going to do it soon?
Eva Victor: Someday, I need to sleep for a second.
Celine Song: But yeah, of course, after you sleep.
Eva Victor: No, but I am really curious about that, obviously.
Celine Song: Yeah. Well, I think that what's amazing is that you just kind of... I know I felt really lucky doing it. Every day I feel like I got on set and I would find my first AD, and I would just be like... And he'll tell me everything that isn't going according to plan, things that are going according to plan, all the different good news from the morning. And then I'll just listen to everything. I'll be like, "Okay, we're going to figure all those things out."
Eva Victor: Oh, cool.
Celine Song: But how lucky that we get to make a movie today? But it sounds like we can still go today.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: So I think that part of it is so special. And also, I mean, I got to make the movie that I wanted to for both movies.
Eva Victor: Good.
Celine Song: You know?
Eva Victor: Yes. Because a real gift in the privacy of making a first movie and not having the visibility.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah.
Eva Victor: Because it's just you and your people and no eyes that are watching for weird reasons. How did you navigate walking into... with so much visibility? You seriously are so known. And I feel like the percentage of... I mean, I don't know how it felt inside of it, but how many people I think saw you, not just saw the film, but saw you inside it, it was a remarkable moment. And it's such a lasting film. And how did it feel walking into... with that visibility? Because you were saying you felt pretty grateful.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: That's an amazing way to process the potential pressure of visibility into being like, "I'm grateful to be here." Was that most of it?
Celine Song: Well, I feel like some of it is... First of all, I'm not that known, but I feel like in New York, of course, maybe more because Past Lives is such a New York movie. I made it here already.
Eva Victor: It's just such a film place.
Celine Song: Yeah. And then also your footprint is so huge, and then you're taking over a whole block to shoot a movie. Right?
Eva Victor: Right. And it disrupts because you're in New York.
Celine Song: It disrupts, of course. And everybody's like, "What are you shooting here?"
Eva Victor: And is it worth blocking my truck?
Celine Song: Yeah, exactly. But I think it's like... Some of it is about, well, you can take that as that attention or that all the visibility as a thing that is really in the way and is very annoying. Or you can really think of it as like, "Well, how amazing that everybody wants to know what my next movie's going to be."
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Right? Because what that means is that they're interested and if the dream-
Eva Victor: They're around, they're there. They're waiting.
Celine Song: Exactly. And the dream, if the dream is that you're somebody who makes culture, if you're somebody who gets to have an audience that you hope to grow and expand and find new corners in, then there's a part of it you just have to be like, "So cool that everybody cares." You know?
Eva Victor: Why is this therapy?
Celine Song: Yeah. I, feel like it's always... Any conversation I think has a therapeutic element if you get deep enough, you know?
Eva Victor: They keep us apart. They have us direct our own movies, and we don't get to talk as much.
Celine Song: I know. We just don't.
Eva Victor: I know.
Celine Song: But I think that that's why I kind of really like this podcast, you know?
Eva Victor: Yeah, it's nice, I think. Yeah.
Celine Song: Yeah. I feel like it meant a lot because I did the one that I did before with Sofia Coppola and that... I feel like that was one of those moments where you just get to sit and just talk about what this all actually feels like. Right?
Eva Victor: Right. I know, because it's such a weird-
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: And you catch each other at really weird times. Every week is different.
Celine Song: Oh yeah.
Eva Victor: And then my other thing I wanted to say about what you said before, I feel like I'm understanding now how little time it is that you get to be on set in the scheme of making a film.
Celine Song: Yes.
Eva Victor: I don't think I understood that when I was walking into it. I thought on set was the big... And it is so big, but time-wise, it's like this blip in the making of a film. And the further I get from it, I understand why that time is so precious as artists where you really get to work.
Celine Song: Yeah. Well, that's what you're all doing together, right?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: And it's also where the team is the biggest, right?
Eva Victor: Yes, it's true.
Celine Song: But I do think that being a filmmaker, being the director, it's like you get to know every single person who works on the movie in a way that no one else does. Right?
Eva Victor: Yes. And it feels like people come in... It's like a quest, and people come in as the really important part of the piece. After production, which is so hectic and adrenaline-fueled, you get to go do the edit, which is kind of the balm to production, which is time.
Celine Song: Yes.
Eva Victor: But also it's like a nightmare, but it's also intimate in this way that's new. It's a very cool job.
Celine Song: Well, it's like everybody is showing up for the great affair, right?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: You are kind of having this amazing, beautiful, creative affair for different phases of your making a movie. But then at the end of the day, the whole thing is you're the only one who has the whole picture, right?
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: And you're the only one who knows the studio head who's signing the checks and also the guy who's carrying the boom mic. You're the one who knows all of them.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: So in a way, it's this amazing thing where you just get to see the picture of every single person who touches this movie.
Eva Victor: Yes, it's big.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: And you give the movie away over and over.
Celine Song: Yes, of course.
Eva Victor: And that is nice.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah. I mean, to the collaborators?
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Of course.
Eva Victor: It's so much, it becomes everyone's film in a way that's... Really, that part I find to be very special.
Celine Song: Yeah. Well, I feel like the moment where the department heads and then everybody, truly, I mean, down to the PAs, when they start to know what movie we're all making. And then my favorite thing is whenever my department heads just know the answers to the questions. There's a moment in prep where... It’s because it used to be that I'm the only person who could have answers, and eventually my DP will know the right answer, and then he'll actually know it before me faster, better. Right?
Eva Victor: Wow.
Celine Song: And that's really magical. And of course it happens with cast too. I mean, in your case, you're in your film.
Eva Victor: No, but, I mean, the cast saved my life.
Celine Song: Of course. Because, I mean, they are thinking about what they have to do.
Eva Victor: Well, that I love, that someone becomes the advocate for their thing, and then they become the expert. And that to me, with the casting process, the joy of giving words to someone and then trusting that they understand that person more than... The giving away, especially to actors, obviously to designers too and everyone, but there was something really special about being able to give away these slices of these people, and then they become whole people in front of your eyes. And you don't totally understand how it got there, but it's just now it's a whole person because this... Yeah.
Celine Song: And it's always better. I always think about this, right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Because the person's bringing their whole humanity to the words on the page, which is the words on the page is just a suggestion of a person.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Right?
Eva Victor: It's like walk down this road if you're interested and then continue the road yourself, because you're the only one that knows how to do it.
Celine Song: Right.
Eva Victor: It's such a beautiful collaboration.
Celine Song: I know. I love it. Well, I feel like when it comes to the way that the actors show up for it, I feel like if you give them room... But the room has to be something that is within the bounds of what you know about the character. But as long as the walls of that room are clear, the actor can fill it with their soul and it's so magical, you know?
Eva Victor: How was that with Materialists? Watching-
Celine Song: That's what it was.
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Yeah, it's like there is a bit of a target that we all talk about as a target we're trying to hit.
Eva Victor: How do you talk about that?
Celine Song: We talk about what I know about the character. I have to communicate everything I know about the character. And then of course, there is always going to be a conversation. And my rehearsals are more like table work. We don't really read the lines, we just kind of go through every line and we talk about if anybody has questions, what I know about that line, what the meaning of that line is, what's going on?
Eva Victor: Oh wow.
Celine Song: And then... yeah.
Eva Victor: Did you rehearsals before? What is your rehearsal process?
Celine Song: I do it during prep. Yeah.
Eva Victor: Oh, wow.
Celine Song: And then of course, when we hit the set, the day begins with rehearsal.
Eva Victor: Mm-hmm. For the whole day or just for the scene you're doing?
Celine Song: For the scene I'm doing.
Eva Victor: Okay, just checking. Just checking.
Celine Song: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The scene you're doing, and when everybody's there and then we all... But a part of the rehearsal is actually just more like blocking rehearsal.
Eva Victor: I agree, yeah.
Celine Song: What about you? I mean, also I need to ask, how do you do it while you're in the scene as a main character too?
Eva Victor: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I prepared everything to the point of insanity, because I have a ton of anxiety. And my way through the year before I shot the film was preparing the directing, I mean, as best as you can, before prep. Just thinking through everything and storyboarding so that I could... Because I never made anything. So I was like, "I need to create visuals to understand if I like them." I had to sort of draw.
And then my acting prep was a lot... It was kind of table work stuff too, where I just sat with my acting coach and we talked about this person's transformation and how much we needed to convey in the few scenes we have before my character goes through something really intense. And then this journey and how to just stay honest with every moment. And, I mean, I did have an acting coach who we...
Just being able to talk out loud is sort of what the director and the actor get to do together often. And it was important that I had someone to work with in that way. And then honestly, with Naomi, she's just so good.
Celine Song: She's great. So good. Yeah.
Eva Victor: Yeah, she's amazing. She can do anything. And when we met, there was just chemistry. And it was much more for me in that relationship in the film about capturing the ease of that than any sort of thing we had to hit. Because the beginning of the film was simply trying to create an atmosphere of joy and welcoming for my audience so that we feel held during the harder parts.
But something I miss about having gone to acting school and doing plays is the lengthy rehearsal process. That is the acting dream is to get time and time and time to just talk through everything and to get to do the play in one go. So how is it making film? Do you like it?
Celine Song: I mean, I love it.
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Well, I think what you're talking about, that's something that I feel like is a new way of thinking about it. Because you're right, a play lives and is born and it dies in one night in one performance.
Eva Victor: Yes, then it lives again and again but in its own-
Celine Song: And then you do it over and over again.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Exactly. And every night it lives a little differently.The audience is different, the actor's mood is different. But the thing about film, this is kind of the way that I think about it, which is that every day when you're doing a scene, part of it is that you're trying to... Part of putting it into can and finishing that scene is to kill it. Right?
Eva Victor: Hmm.
Celine Song: So as you're kind of carrying out... Because we also shot on film, so part of it is we are literally carrying out cans of film. And I would always say, "Well, those are just little body parts of this movie." Right?
Eva Victor: Wow.
Celine Song: And some days you're making little fingers, sometimes you're making a whole face, right?
Eva Victor: Yes, yeah.
Celine Song: And you're going to get eyes later, right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Or sometimes you're being like, "Okay, today's a day, we shoot the whole torso," right?
Eva Victor: Yes. This is a big torso day.
Celine Song: Exactly. And then you get all these different body parts. And I would always laugh because I would watch the cans of film that we shot carried out, and I was like, "Well, there is a little body part that we shot today." Right?
Eva Victor: It's like, "Bye, let's preserve that until..."
Celine Song: Exactly. And then in post-production, you basically get to bring all the body parts in, you sort through it and then-
Eva Victor: What fits together?
Celine Song: …and then you start to sew it. It's kind of like your Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein, and you're kind of sewing together different body parts. And the goal, at least for me, is to sew it so intricately and so seamlessly that the audience thinks that the end product, which is something that we put together, sound picture, everything, this thing that so many... hundreds of people worked on to create perfect body parts and then to sew it on the right way the whole time, as scripted. You are dreaming that this Frankenstein's monster is... the audience thinks that it has a mother, as in it was just born that way and that no one made it.
Eva Victor: There's effortlessness to it.
Celine Song: It’s effortless. So much so that you want the audience to fall in love with just the beauty of this human being.
Eva Victor: To not see the stitches?
Celine Song: To not see the stitches.
Eva Victor: That's so beautiful. And what's interesting about that is something that is crazy about the edit is discovering, okay, so this foot can be the most beautiful foot you've ever seen that on its own. Then the second it goes on the body, it's like the body's rejecting the foot.
Celine Song: Oh yeah. It’s too wobbly.
Eva Victor: Or like you have to choose an uglier foot. Yeah. So the foot has to be longer and weirder shaped, but only because this body requires that. That part is the fun, crazy...
Celine Song: It's really fun.
Eva Victor: And it's so crazy that you're trying to build the best body part possible to withstand the future.
Celine Song: Oh yeah.
Eva Victor: But you're also kind of like... I don't know. I am making really thoughtful guesses about what's going to fit together, but, man, that body on the other side takes a second.
Celine Song: Well, but my thing is, I think on your second movie, and this was my experience, that you kind of get to realize that you're like, "Well, I just know that I need to get these few different sizes for the body parts just in case." I'm like, "Oh, it's so..." Because of course, when you're trying to, especially when the set piece is beautiful and everything, you're looking for the biggest, most spectacular body part, and you're trying to get that, but then you have to have...
I feel you already going to know that you have the instinct, being like, "Well, in the edit I know I might need a smaller version of that body part."
Eva Victor: Yeah, like I might need a tiny finger.
Celine Song: Or I might be like, "Oh, to withstand that body part, I need bigger feet." So when we get to the feet part, then we'll be like... Right? It's kind of like-
Eva Victor: I love this.
Celine Song: I think it's-
Eva Victor: Truly a beautiful image because it's true.
Celine Song: I think so.
Eva Victor: And I think it works in a hundred ways.
Celine Song: Yeah. And the thing is, when you're shaving... Because I shave, whatever, two frames sometimes. And you're like, "Well, you're doing that so that little stitch that's sticking out, you can't see." Right?
Eva Victor: Yes. I mean, that work is so euphoric, the little stitch work.
Celine Song: I know, so fun.
Eva Victor: Because that is something that it's like a reward. And in writing too, I feel like that's what I'm always hoping for is that I get to the place with a project where I'm like, "I'm reading. I'm reading, I'm reading. There's a stitch out of place and fixing the stitch." But you only get there after-
Celine Song: Yeah, so fun.
Eva Victor: But you only get there after, oh my God, so long.
Celine Song: Well, you also don't know when it's going to happen. Right?
Eva Victor: Mm-hmm.
Celine Song: Because sometimes it's happening in the writing, sometimes it happens in production. Right?
Eva Victor: So you think sometimes... So tell me about how you write, because do you ever go into how many stitches should show? Because I feel like in my head the idea is, in the writing, the idea that you try to make the body in the writing as seamless as possible so that when you get to the next thing and you chop up the body again, you can put it back together and you don't see the first... But is that how you think about it? Or are you like, "This is how much I need to know to go into shooting," for your writing?
Celine Song: Well, I feel like if you can cut something from your script before you go into production, what I learned is that you should. Right?
Eva Victor: It's never going to show up and be necessary later?
Celine Song: Because if you feel like you don't need it, the chance is that you don't. Right?
Eva Victor: Mm-hmm.
Celine Song: But I think that instinct, it's sometimes... I found it really hard to navigate when I was making Past Lives, my first movie, because I would be like... I have an instinct. My instinct is that I don't need it, but then you're scared because you don't know. So you're like, "Okay, well we'll shoot it." And then we put all these resources into it and then it ends up on the editing room floor.
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Right? But I feel like it also has to do with how you want to do it. My editor's experience for 10 years has been with Terrence Malick. Right?
Eva Victor: Mm-hmm.
Celine Song: I mean, so I know that he works in a way where he's not worried about how many extra body parts he ends up with.
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Right? So I think it depends on the filmmaker. I feel like different filmmakers probably do it differently.
Eva Victor: Totally.
Celine Song: But for Materialists, I feel like almost everything we shoot is in the movie.
Eva Victor: Because you already edited through.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: And maybe you are someone who is like, "I don't want extra body parts. I want more time to make the body parts or something."
Celine Song: Yeah. That to me... Because also that way you can put the resources into the individual body part.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Because we were kind of like, "Well, if it means that I can have-"
Eva Victor: Right? It's always a compromise.
Celine Song: It's always a compromise.
Eva Victor: It's like, "If I have to go quick on this, I want this too."
Celine Song: Yeah. Well, what was the process for you in writing Sorry, Baby?
Eva Victor: The things that you would've told me I cut from the film later, you would've had to actually chain me up to get me to cut those. Those were the reasons I made... There were scenes where the reasons I felt like the film got made. There were little interludes throughout the film that I felt were so important for relief. And then something really clear happened in the edit where those scenes felt like just tension, it was just diffused and it was so slow.
And then the film just felt like they were... It was rejecting the scenes that I feel like the idea of them I loved. And then the things that I ended up keeping that felt so essential, there were a couple moments on the set where I was like, "This doesn't feel so right," that once they were in... I was very moved by how little I knew and how much guessing was involved in how the edit would happen. And I am so curious about... I don't feel like I'll know exactly what I learned from that until I try again. Because-
Celine Song: That's true.
Eva Victor: ...I don't know if I would have learned to actually cut that thing, or if shooting that is actually important for another reason I don't understand. But what's crazy is that... I'm freaking out.
Celine Song: I know.
Eva Victor: Something crazy is that every movie is a new universe.
Celine Song: Yes.
Eva Victor: So sure you can make a film, but I've never directed a film not in it. So I only know about that flow. And, yes, I've directed this film, but I've never directed one that looks like this with this kind of world. And that part's obviously the reason why it's amazing to get to make more than one movie and why we want to do that. But also, it's continually terrifying. It's building another body that like an animal you've never seen or something. But you don't know what it's supposed to look like till...
Celine Song: Well, the problem is that it's a process like life. Right?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: As in, how amazing that you're going to get to do another one. Also, part of that is that you're also risking a lot, right?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: But just like life. So I do think that you're talking about, "Yeah, I wish that we get to make our movies. It's out. It's going great." Your film's going so great. And then you wish that, "Okay, well, that's it. That's the end of my life."
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Right?
Eva Victor: Like, "This would be a great time to end."
Celine Song: Yeah. But the thing is, the movie is over and the movie is out into the world. And in a way it's like... You're right, it's not yours because you... Now that you can't go to the movie theaters and try to fix it and do more time and sound or something, you have to let it be, right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: So in a way, creatively, it's no longer a life for you because you can't do anything for it.
Eva Victor: Right. Well, there's grief to that, no?
Celine Song: Huge grief. But something that I know really alleviates that grief for me is to think about the next thing. Right.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: And then then next thing-
Eva Victor: It's the only way.
Celine Song: It's the only way. I mean-
Eva Victor: Because it's the only thing you have. Everything else is put on you.
Celine Song: Everything else, everything you're doing so that you can support the child you made that is now walking and living and it's going to meet their people on their own and you have to be there to support this kid, send it to college, you know?
Eva Victor: I know. Like, "Bye,"
Celine Song: Bye.
Eva Victor: "But miss you and hope you're okay."
Celine Song: Hope you're okay. I hope I gave you everything you needed. But then you just have to let that kind of be. And then what's amazing is that we just can continue thinking about the next thing.
Eva Victor: That's the only relief.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah. Well, what I was thinking was that you know how you were saying that you want to sleep first before your next movie?
Eva Victor: I don't though. I know I said that, but I kind of made that up. I want to sleep for an hour and then make a movie.
Celine Song: Yes, about a couple of hours, you know?
Eva Victor: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Celine Song: Just two hours, that's enough.
Eva Victor: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Celine Song: But for me, it's like, well, I was so lucky to support my movie through all the award stuff. So what happened was that after the... So I went to the Oscars, which was so cool.
Eva Victor: Damn.
Celine Song: It was real damn. It was really cool. It was so fun.
Eva Victor: Damn, bro.
Celine Song: And then after I went to that, the next day I flew back to New York. The day after that I was on a scout van to make Materialists.
Eva Victor: No, you weren't.
Celine Song: Yes, I was, and a part of it-
Eva Victor: And so you knew that whole time you were going to that scout van.
Celine Song: I knew the whole time.
Eva Victor: That must have been so good for your soul.
Celine Song: It was so fun. I feel like, because of course Past Lives, you kind of have a long grieving process of like, "Well, that movie is what it is." But of course, that's something to remember for us, I think in general, is that, yeah, so it might be over for us when it comes to that particular movie. Maybe it's dead to us, but it's alive in the audience.
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: For the audience, every new member of the audience who sees the movie, it comes back to life.
Eva Victor: It's a baby again for them.
Celine Song: Yeah, and then I think it's amazing because then we get to live vicariously through the way that the audience sees it. So if they're like, "Oh, I really... It meant something to me," then I always feel like I'm alive again in it, right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: So that I really love. But then what I think the best part is like, yeah, you're right, those 12 hours, 12-14 hours every day where there’s like 600 people working on the movie. Right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: We're in the office, on set, and then we're all just hustling together.
Eva Victor: Yeah, and it's like you can't... It just requires presence.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: And I think so much of this part of putting out the film is so about you, me, or whatever. And actually the thing I remember feeling relieved by was people feeling connected to the script and the film we were making, because it really does... Making the film actually does take the attention off of how you are and puts it on clarity of the story you're trying to tell. And that shift of, "It's not about me, it's about this thing. And it stands over here. And we're all looking at that," that I find to be really helpful. And the thing I'm also missing is we're all looking at the thing, not at me. You know?
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: And that is helpful. And there's work. There's stuff to do when you're making a movie. It's good to stay busy with the stuff you're doing because it keeps you on track with what the point of your life is. You know?
Celine Song: Well, you don't think that they're all looking at you? Because I feel like... I mean, for me, I feel like being a director always is that you are the... My joke is that I'm the mother, sister, daughter-
Eva Victor: Tell me what that is?
Celine Song: ...to every single person who's working on the movie.
Eva Victor: Whoa.
Celine Song: I'm in charge. I'm taking care of you in the mother way. I'm also your sister in that I'm your equal, and you're going to talk it out.
Eva Victor: Your confidant.
Celine Song: Yeah, and we're going to be confidants, and we're going to figure that out. And then I'm also someone to be protected for my vision, everything, like a daughter.
Eva Victor: That's beautiful.
Celine Song: And also what I want, everybody tries to get me, get it to happen. So I feel like it's this kind of you are the center of the... What is it? ... This thing that we're all doing together. Right?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: So everybody's looking at you. Because I feel like I answer a thousand questions a day, right?
Eva Victor: But they're looking at you in relationship to the piece.
Celine Song: Yes, of course.
Eva Victor: Not just you for the sake of you.
Celine Song: No. Well...
Eva Victor: There is something different about... There's a purpose to... You're like the mother of the thing and of people. No?
Celine Song: I think that's true. But I feel like how you are as a person will define how we're making the movie.
Eva Victor: Oh, well, that's totally true.
Celine Song: That's true. So in that way, it's like, "Well..." I think about that so much. I feel like how I respond or how I behave, it's going to reverberate throughout the whole set.
Eva Victor: There's cells in it.
Celine Song: There’s cells in it, yeah.
Eva Victor: And the cells in the film. It's totally intense.
Celine Song: It is intense. So in that way, I feel like you're right.
Eva Victor: No, yes.
Celine Song: My goal is for it to be all about the movie. But as the person who is holding the movie in my mind and who does know everybody from the highest paid person on set to the lowest person on set, I know everybody, right?
Eva Victor: Mm-hmm.
Celine Song: In that way, I just feel like I'm responsible for everyone's work. I'm responsible for everyone's... And I'm also like, "We've got to think about this," which is that for 12 to 14 hours a day, these grown adults, these grown union adults are giving their lives, giving their lives for 12 to 14 hours in pursuit of this thing that isn't made yet. I really have a genuine question about how tangible it is. Because of course, it's in a hard drive or it's in a can, there is a tangibility to the movie.
Eva Victor: But it's also in the air.
Celine Song: Yeah. It's about living through.
Eva Victor: Yeah, that's so true.
Celine Song: The audience is experiencing it and that's the final product, that part.
Eva Victor: Yes. It's the experience of it. No, you're right.
Celine Song: It's the experience of it.
Eva Victor: It's not the DVD. It's the time you spend watching the film and that either-
Celine Song: It's time and space, yeah.
Eva Victor: Yeah, it lodges itself into someone or it moves through them. But either way, it's about that person's relationship to what they're experiencing and that you cannot hold.
Celine Song: No, I mean, you're also asking the audience to give two hours of their lives.
Eva Victor: I mean, that to me is the thing.
Celine Song: That's pretty...
Eva Victor: That is the thing of the honor I feel-
Celine Song: Yes, honor.
Eva Victor: ...that someone spent two hours of their lives and also they got there and they're leaving, they're going back. That-
Celine Song: Sometimes they get babysitters, and I'm like-
Eva Victor: I know.
Celine Song: ..."You got a babysitter?"
Eva Victor: And they buy candy, and it's like they want to eat candy while watching the movie because they want to-
Celine Song: That's the best.
Eva Victor: ...escape and they want to feel... It's sensory and they want to... No, and that's what we do. I feel like that's why movies took my heart, it's because it's like I got to give two hours and get a life back too, in a way.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: But it's also a risk. Sometimes you spend two hours and it wasn't...
Celine Song: It was a waste of your time. Yeah.
Eva Victor: Yeah. But it's also something about like, I tried, I was interested in engaging with that, and for some reason it didn't move me the way I wanted it to. But I'm going to go back. People go back because they're like... And that's why there's so many movies. And that's the coolest, that there's not one movie. It's like you find what moves you, but you have to give it enough time to find what moves you.
Celine Song: Oh, yeah. And also, it's a question when you walk into a thing. And I feel like in a world where everybody's trying to be risk averse, it is really hard to be like, "Hey, take a risk on this thing." Right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: It's an original story, right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: It's from this person that you may have heard of, maybe you haven't. And I think it'll be great, or it could be?
Eva Victor: Right.
Celine Song: Right? So it's such a wild thing to promise. And then of course, as everybody’s becoming like, "Well, my time is worth this," and there's a lot of risk averse culture, it's kind of hard to be increasingly... It's always hard to be like, "Hey, take a risk on giving us two hours of your life."
Eva Victor: Right, it's a huge ask.
Celine Song: It's a big ask. But my thing is, if you were able to think about that responsibility... I even used the word honor, right?
Eva Victor: Mm-hmm.
Celine Song: It's like some of it is about really seeing it as well. It is an honor to have it, so I'm not going to disrespect it.
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Right? And it may be that I know at the end of the day, all I'm doing is that I'm risking as much as you, right?
Eva Victor: Yeah. I mean, yes.
Celine Song: And I'm giving you everything I have.
Eva Victor: And that's doing the stitches and making the stitches. It's like I'm giving you every, every... I'm caring. I care so much.
Celine Song: Well, I'm giving you... What a final mix is 12 hours days and I'm there the whole time. And then of course, my sound designers are there 12 to 14 hours a day. And my thing is like, "Well, these are people who have devoted their lives to sound design," for example, right?
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Or my DP, it's somebody who devoted his life to image making. You're going to see these incredible grown up professionals give everything they know, giving all of themselves to the art of this thing. And my thing is like, "Well, that's what we're actually able to offer. Because if you show up for two hours, you get to see all of us do our-"
Eva Victor: Craftwork.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: It's a craftsmanship.
Celine Song: Also, I've been a writer for 20 years. We are all showing up, basically being like... Giving you not just a little bit of image, little bit of sound, little bit of writing. We're showing up to give you our whole life. Right?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Because my script or my DP's images, it's not coming from ether. You didn't just plug it into... you'd plug into AI and then pop it out. What happened was that you built-
Eva Victor: You build it from the ground.
Celine Song: Exactly. We worked, we failed, we worked again, and then-
Eva Victor: I miss that part.
Celine Song: I know. It is really good. You're going to get there. You got to do it soon. You know what I mean? You're going to get to be on set two seconds, you know?
Eva Victor: I got to get in my location van. It's like I actually can't believe it's real.
Celine Song: What?
Eva Victor: Just being able to do this.
Celine Song: Yeah, I know.
Eva Victor: It's crazy.
Celine Song: It's really cool.
Eva Victor: It's really cool.
Celine Song: I know.
Eva Victor: And there's so many parts of it, and every time you do a new part, you're like, "What are you talking about?" That's part of this job. It's such a special job.
Celine Song: Oh yeah.
Eva Victor: And it's true.
Celine Song: Feel really lucky. Yeah.
Eva Victor: It's a really crazy thing to have people... What you're saying about them is they're giving their days of their lives to create this with you, and it's supreme focus, and it's everyone doing the best that they can. It is so life-affirming to be in a space where everyone's doing that.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: It's very rare.
Celine Song: Of course.
Eva Victor: And everyone who's there understands why you're there. So there's no explaining what we're doing.
Celine Song: No. I mean, talk about being seen.
Eva Victor: Yes. Yes.
Celine Song: I feel the most seen when I'm on my set. That's where I feel the most seen outside of my home.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: You know? I feel like that's a place where I feel like, "Oh, I know everybody sees me." Because I feel like it's also where I feel very, very, very human.
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: You know? Because, I don't know, some of it is about just the energy of it or it's just the passion of it that we're all like, "Yeah, we're not showing up to... We're not here to fuck around."
Eva Victor: No, we're doing this.
Celine Song: Yeah. You know?
Eva Victor: Once the timeline starts, that shit just fucking goes.
Celine Song: I know, and it's so cool. And also, you get exactly how much you care out of it. I think about that in terms of how much care is involved. And I'm always like, "Well, if you don't care, then you'll get less out of it. And then if you care a lot, you don't get a lot out of it," just as a person.
Eva Victor: Yes. No. No, totally.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: This is so nice talking to you.
Celine Song: It’s so nice talking to you.
Eva Victor: Seriously.
Celine Song: Seriously.
Eva Victor: I can't believe it.
Celine Song: So I feel like something I genuinely am like, well, were you able to direct yourself in your... or did you kind of go in? How many takes would you do?
Eva Victor: Yeah, it would be like it... Well, the first few days we scheduled lighter because we had to figure out the flow. I'd never done it. Usually the flow would be I had a stand-in, which is so helpful. So I'd set up the shot with a stand-in, and then I would do it and then watch that. And I would only really watch that for shape, like, "Is this how the shot's meant to move? Is there anything in this that doesn't feel like what I want?" Then once we felt the shot was figured out and any adjustments had been made, I would probably do a run of it until I felt like it was what I wanted.
And then I would usually watch what I liked, but without sound. And it was mostly just like is the vibe of... Is it there? Because I feel like I knew what happened emotionally. Or I knew I just knew what happened, but I just wanted to make sure I saw it through. But I didn't usually watch with sound because I was like... And sometimes stuff was heavy. And I was like, "It's easier for me as a director to just see shape." And then I would know pretty soon...
The thing that was efficient was I noted myself. So there was no sort of having to figure out our flow. I knew the adjustments I wanted to make performance wise pretty quickly. And it was really nice to be working with actors in scenes as a director, because there's sort of this inherent trust because I'm in the trenches too. We're both being really vulnerable. And there were a couple of scenes in the film where I directed two people who... and I wasn't in the scene, and it was a totally different experience of, "I want you to know I am with you. It's hard. But you're vulnerable. You're the ones in front of the camera, and I want you to trust that I see that that's insane." And sometimes I would be like, "Oh..." It would be a learning curve of trying to figure out how to get in there and how to find language for those people. Yeah, so wait, what-
Celine Song: I feel like the reason why I was asking is because I feel like such a big part of my relationship to my actors is my objectivity, because they have to so fully embody the subjectivity of the characters that I never want to ask my actors to also be in charge of the objectivity.
And, of course, I am working with three, just insanely professional, excellent, lifelong actors, because all three of them, Dakota, Chris, and Pedro, all of them just have such experience just working. So the part of the thing that I really found is that... And I think this is something that I found in any actor who has really long experience working, is that they have a way to see their performance a little bit objectively, because part of it is protectiveness, right?
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: And then of course, after you build a certain amount of trust and they're able to release-
Eva Victor: Release that.
Celine Song: ...release that and let go, and then just let it be a subjective work. And I think that to me, getting to that place is something that I'm working on in usually the first week, right?
Eva Victor: Yes. And is it with each person a different way to build?
Celine Song: Of course.
Eva Victor: Yes, yes, of course.
Celine Song: Because everyone's a different person, so you have a different relationship with each person.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: I think that it's like-
Eva Victor: Mother, sister, daughter.
Celine Song: Mother, sister, daughter, right? It's like you kind of have to approach every relationship and also every scene differently. Because some scenes are bigger scenes for one character. Or even within the scene, the whole... I'm like, "Well, the first part of the scene is all about Dakota's character, Lucy. The second part of the scene is all about Pedro's character, Harry." So we're kind of always dealing with it's a bit of a sparring of... It's a movie where it's a sparring of ideas. So much of it has to do with each person really committing to the subjectivity. So I have to then be able to tell them that I'm in charge of the objective, as in I'm the person who tells them how it reads.
Eva Victor: Yes. So it's like I can take that burden off of you and tell you how it's read.
Celine Song: I feel like that's always the offer. And I think that usually the first week is an opportunity for all of us to build that trust so that we can all walk away from it feeling just really awesome. And, also, I mean, the way that all three of them are... For example, when I'm noting, the reason why I was asking about noting, is that it's like the rhythm of noting is different for each actor. So I was just thinking how does one note oneself? Because, well, the problem with... Because I'm a very bad actor.
Eva Victor: Are you?
Celine Song: I'm really bad.
Eva Victor: Really? When have you done it?
Celine Song: I've not really done it.
Eva Victor: You just feel that you're bad?
Celine Song: I was in a short... I'm in general bad, but I was in a play once and I did a short film once. And the problem with me in that situation is that I will do a piece of performance and then in the middle of a performance, I'll be noting it. But then that is really connected to the way that I note as a director. Because I'm usually writing something down about what I want to note.
Eva Victor: Halfway through?
Celine Song: Look, while it's happening.
Eva Victor: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Celine Song: I'll hear something I'm like, "Oh, I know..." I mean that part is so fun because I also know why it's not the right thing and what the adjustment is.
Eva Victor: Right, it's almost like your note is you answering the thing you had a question about as that person...
Celine Song: Yes. And I get to learn about myself and I get to learn about them. It's a very-
Eva Victor: It's intimate.
Celine Song: I think noting is romantic.
Eva Victor: Yes, it is.
Celine Song: Right? It's a romantic relationship, because some of it is about you're kind of trying to offer something. And, of course, with different actors, the rhythm of a note is... It's also something that we're finding in the first week. I feel like usually I'm like... Because trying things. Right?
Eva Victor: Yeah, totally. I mean, the thing about it being romantic is so true because it's like I see something in you and I'm seeing something and I have an idea of where this could go, but I don't know and we have to decide together. There's a real leap of faith of...
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: To me, I know to sort of like, "I have a hypothesis about something that could be an interesting road to walk down, but I don't know what's going to happen at the end of the road. Are you interested in walking down that road with me and doing this this way to see what we come up with together?" It's very intimate...
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: And that's-
Celine Song: Oh, yeah. And also we get to learn how we grew up too. It's kind of like you get to learn about the culture that we all grew up in.
Eva Victor: The way communication lands correctly or not?
Celine Song: Yeah. Because I'm like, "Well, I might have used a certain word and that word is actually not translating because-"
Eva Victor: It means something else to you.
Celine Song: It means something else to them. I feel like that was really fun with, for example... Because what was amazing about working with Dakota is that her and I, think, because I have a-
Eva Victor: Bangs. Both of you have bangs.
Celine Song: Yes, we have bangs. We both have bangs. But also we're both... I was maybe going to be a psychologist.
Eva Victor: Or really?
Celine Song: I was a psychology major in college. Yeah.
Eva Victor: Cool.
Celine Song: So I was doing that. And I think she's so savvy about psychological language in general. So I feel like something about our language was already pretty immediate. And so with her, the rhythm would be very... She would just try, the first take would be rolling. And then between the first and second take, we would talk about it in a language that would be so fast. And so we would talk about it as almost telepathic because we would barely have to be fully articulate for us to know why...
Eva Victor: That's cool.
Celine Song: ...what we're missing for the first one.
Eva Victor: You both agree kind of...
Celine Song: We would. And then the second take, she will just know.
Eva Victor: Wow.
Celine Song: Yeah, I know. And then the third take, we'll start to try new things, fourth take, it was kind of like that.
Eva Victor: When you were shooting that, did you feel that on set and then also in the edit that was the same-
Celine Song: Oh yeah.
Eva Victor: Okay.
Celine Song: Oh yeah.
Eva Victor: Wow.
Celine Song: Well, and then when it comes to Chris, for example, he and I think the first week we were trying to figure out different languages because of... I don't know, he's from a different generation. And also he's a guy from Boston.
Eva Victor: Yeah. He's a Boston guy.
Celine Song: And he's a Boston guy. So there was a part of where I'd be like... I would use the word humble and he would understand it in a different way. So it would be kind of aligning some of those languages. Right?
Eva Victor: Oh, cool.
Celine Song: But the thing that I really love about working with him is that he... There are a couple of things that would just make me and Dakota laugh so much, which is that hits when it's time to roll and he comes and hits the mark, he goes, "All right, let's fucking act."
Eva Victor: He says that every time?
Celine Song: He says that not every time, but sometimes when he's psyching himself and he shows up, he's like, "All right, let's fucking act."
Eva Victor: Oh my god.
Celine Song: Isn't it so sweet?
Eva Victor: That's so sweet.
Celine Song: And then in between when I give him notes, and with him, it would be more like... Because sometimes you're trying to dole out a few notes at a time. But with him, I give him all 10. If I have 10-
Eva Victor: He wants to know.
Celine Song: He wants to know. He wants to hear everything. And then in the next take, it's amazing. He'll do all of it. Right?
Eva Victor: Hmm, wow. That's cool.
Celine Song: And the thing is, he's really technical.
Eva Victor: Wow.
Celine Song: So when, but when I give him a note, so let's do a take and then when I give him a note for the next take, he hears that, we talk about it and he goes, "All right, got it. Watch this." Isn't that so sweet?
Eva Victor: I mean, honestly, the beauty of that is he is creating new energy to lighten the moment so that the next thing can be free.
Celine Song: Yes.
Eva Victor: It's almost like returning everyone to childhood.
Celine Song: Yeah, like we're playing.
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Oh, it's cool.
Eva Victor: It's like, "Let's fucking act."
Celine Song: Let's fucking act.
Eva Victor: That's like a way to take any tension out of the room.
Celine Song: It's cool.
Eva Victor: That's amazing.
Celine Song: Yeah.
Eva Victor: Okay. How about Pedro? Do everyone.
Celine Song: I mean with Pedro, I feel like so much of it is about... in such abstract language. Sometimes we will kind of get into it in a way where we're like... Again, I think it's similar to the way it is with Dakota, where it's very philosophical and psychological. And then it's usually before we roll, that's when we talk a lot before.
Eva Victor: Oh, interesting.
Celine Song: Yeah. And then he goes, and then we just keep going. Second take, third take.
Eva Victor: In the same take?
Celine Song: In the run, yeah, because in between... And then I feel like when it comes to notes, it's always about something that I would usually just give him a word or something that we already talked about before we started rolling.
Eva Victor: Oh my God.
Celine Song: It's fun. They're different.
Eva Victor: There's something very familial.
Celine Song: Yes.
Eva Victor: Something very intimate and deep about learning how someone needs to be communicated with. It's very loving to learn how someone receives a note. Because being an actor is so vulnerable and you're just throwing... And you know what? This is something I feel like I really understood for the first time, is how much control actors let go of, how much they give you, and then how much trust they have that you will take care of them on the other side. And that responsibility is intense and so powerful. It's so powerful to be given that gift of, "I did all these takes for you. I let you choose which one that you think fits on the body and I'm going to be the face of the body," or whatever.
And that, I feel like it's really made me think about the future and you really do have to... You have to work with people who are going to learn you as a whole person, who care enough to see you as full, because that's how you can hand your whole self off to them and trust that they'll put it together in a way that honors your soul.
Celine Song: Totally. And I think it's like with great power comes great responsibility. You know what I mean?
Eva Victor: Yes.
Celine Song: Isn't that just... It's cliché-
Eva Victor: Ain't that the truth?
Celine Song: But ain't that the truth?
Eva Victor: That is the thesis of what we came to today.
Celine Song: I know. Yeah. It's just a lot of responsibility. And I feel like if you take that very, very seriously and the whole thing is every day you're showing up and you're promising everyone, "We're going to a great movie today. We're going to make a great movie today." You know?
Eva Victor: Yeah.
Celine Song: Of course, to all the actors, but also every single person who works in the movie.
Eva Victor: Yeah.